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chameleon
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Location:
Leeds
Joined on:
29-Mar-2007 22:46:49
Posted:
3607 posts
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Nothing really spectacular, but an article caught my eye on the YEP site and I can't believe what I rread - but then, perhaps I should!
Has anyone seen the scaffolding in the middle of the roundabout in Crossgates? When I first saw it, I dismissed it as being just that or perhaps the return of Tramsco to dig it up once more but no, I discovered this structure is actually 'art' intended to welcome people to Crossgates!
With a more careful look I can see what they mean in as my=uch they could be gates.... but rather abstract.
Turns out too there was debate regarding the paint colour with some beurocratic pressure coming into play in that decission. Colour is simple - the old School badge was striking in red and white on navy blue - so why insipped semi pastel colurs on this thing?
Oh well it's there now - oh, almost forget, this brain child of the City Architect cost £143,000. No recession in the hospitality section then
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Si
User
Location:
Otley
Joined on:
10-Oct-2007 11:52:40
Posted:
3395 posts
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Art is in the eye of the beholder,.....however, wasted money is the same to everyone.
I don't mind anyone calling anything art (piles of bricks, unmade beds, etc) but when you have to look at it everyday, and it costs that kind of money, it becomes a bad joke.
Emperor's new clothes...
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raveydavey
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Location:
Leeds
Joined on:
22-Mar-2007 20:29:07
Posted:
1118 posts
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It's funny how the YEP can't decide if they should call the area Cross Gates (current favourite) or Crossgates.
For what it's worth it's always been Crossgates to me (as a former resident!)
That said, the gates look a mess, they aren't "crossed" and how on earth this has racked up a bill of £143,000 is the biggest mystery of the lot. It can only be public money if it's been thrown about in such a casual manner - I wonder how many 'home helps' that money could have provided for the elederly or disabled of Leeds?
Perhaps thats the point - these gates are making everyone cross...
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Brandy
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Location:
Joined on:
21-Feb-2007 12:33:58
Posted:
1469 posts
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theres one on ebay now for £51 http://snipurl.com/ptlo3 so times that by four and stick a few extra quid in for some posts and you should still have a few quid left from your 143K lol
TOTAL WASTE OF MONEY!
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chameleon
User
Location:
Leeds
Joined on:
29-Mar-2007 22:46:49
Posted:
3607 posts
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| raveydavey wrote: |
It's funny how the YEP can't decide if they should call the area Cross Gates (current favourite) or Crossgates.
For what it's worth it's always been Crossgates to me (as a former resident!)
That said, the gates look a mess, they aren't "crossed" and how on earth this has racked up a bill of £143,000 is the biggest mystery of the lot. It can only be public money if it's been thrown about in such a casual manner - I wonder how many 'home helps' that money could have provided for the elederly or disabled of Leeds?
Perhaps thats the point - these gates are making everyone cross... |
I suppose I always write 'Crossgates' these days, but at school it was always Cross Gates and that is who Mum and Grand Mum would write it in our address. We
ve had this discussion before - I suspect two words is probably more correct, we don't have badtemper or oldroad do we?
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dogduke
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Location:
LS9
Joined on:
03-Jan-2008 11:17:19
Posted:
577 posts
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What an absolute abomination.
I don't live in Cross Gates but shop there at least once a week.
My poll(sorry) council tax is about a grand a year.
Let 150 concerned locals queue up outside the civic hall and demand a rebate form those idiots reponsible.
Why does everything have to cost so much?
Everything the council touches should be gold plated for the price.
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cnosni
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Location:
Leeds
Joined on:
28-Mar-2007 21:17:06
Posted:
2685 posts
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Well,perhaps i shouldnt pass comment on this issue as i dont live in Cross Gates,but i do live in Leeds and there is an extra spin on all this.
when the original idea was mooted the price was £50,000 and was to be funded from local regeneration schemes that were set up to allow locals and ward councillors in particular areas to do with what they wish (withstanding a dirty weekend in Amsterdam).
Its now blown out of proportion and is a city wide political debate,or should i say argument.
It would appear that the changes to the original idea were altered at ward councillor level,not city level.
So it seems that the local councillors (who obviously do sit on the city council as well) were behind the changes that escalated the price of the art work to £70.000 then £143,000.
Christ knows how it could almost triple in price,especially as its just a few farm gates in a roundabout.
But one of the ward councillors is a Peter Gruen,and he appears to be involved in all this.
This is the same guy who stood against the use of the £20m windfall from the sale of the airport for an arena (yes,i know im a big supporter of the arena) and was ready to try and block this allocation of funds for such an important project.
I wrote an email to Mr Gruen expressing my opinions about how an arena would benefit the city,his reply was that the £20m would be better spent on,and i quote:-
"Seating and public paved areas across the city,so everyone can benefit"
Well,god help us.
If he can take a £50,000 project and make it cost £143,000 then what could he have done with £20m?
Mr Gruen is a Labour man,and so am i.
But clearly this chap is out of his depth,and it may be of benefit for the labour ward of Cross Gates to have another candidate.
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cnosni
User
Location:
Leeds
Joined on:
28-Mar-2007 21:17:06
Posted:
2685 posts
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| Brandy wrote: |
theres one on ebay now for £51 http://snipurl.com/ptlo3 so times that by four and stick a few extra quid in for some posts and you should still have a few quid left from your 143K lol
TOTAL WASTE OF MONEY! |
FNAR FNAR FNAR
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chameleon
User
Location:
Leeds
Joined on:
29-Mar-2007 22:46:49
Posted:
3607 posts
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| cnosni wrote: |
Well,perhaps i shouldnt pass comment on this issue as i dont live in Cross Gates,but i do live in Leeds and there is an extra spin on all this.
when the original idea was mooted the price was £50,000 and was to be funded from local regeneration schemes that were set up to allow locals and ward councillors in particular areas to do with what they wish (withstanding a dirty weekend in Amsterdam).
Its now blown out of proportion and is a city wide political debate,or should i say argument.
It would appear that the changes to the original idea were altered at ward councillor level,not city level.
So it seems that the local councillors (who obviously do sit on the city council as well) were behind the changes that escalated the price of the art work to £70.000 then £143,000.
Christ knows how it could almost triple in price,especially as its just a few farm gates in a roundabout.
But one of the ward councillors is a Peter Gruen,and he appears to be involved in all this.
This is the same guy who stood against the use of the £20m windfall from the sale of the airport for an arena (yes,i know im a big supporter of the arena) and was ready to try and block this allocation of funds for such an important project.
I wrote an email to Mr Gruen expressing my opinions about how an arena would benefit the city,his reply was that the £20m would be better spent on,and i quote:-
"Seating and public paved areas across the city,so everyone can benefit"
Well,god help us.
If he can take a £50,000 project and make it cost £143,000 then what could he have done with £20m?
Mr Gruen is a Labour man,and so am i.
But clearly this chap is out of his depth,and it may be of benefit for the labour ward of Cross Gates to have another candidate. |
My perception from the YEP article cnosni is that the Councillors were attmpting to put the blame for the increases upon the 'City Planners' for thier insistance upon changes - we should remeber though that our elected few always had, but did not take, the option to abandon the project thus they must be held accountable for this ludicrously unjustifyable waste of money. Was there any public consultation I wonder - particularly regarding the cost?
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raveydavey
User
Location:
Leeds
Joined on:
22-Mar-2007 20:29:07
Posted:
1118 posts
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| chameleon wrote: |
| cnosni wrote: |
Well,perhaps i shouldnt pass comment on this issue as i dont live in Cross Gates,but i do live in Leeds and there is an extra spin on all this.
when the original idea was mooted the price was £50,000 and was to be funded from local regeneration schemes that were set up to allow locals and ward councillors in particular areas to do with what they wish (withstanding a dirty weekend in Amsterdam).
Its now blown out of proportion and is a city wide political debate,or should i say argument.
It would appear that the changes to the original idea were altered at ward councillor level,not city level.
So it seems that the local councillors (who obviously do sit on the city council as well) were behind the changes that escalated the price of the art work to £70.000 then £143,000.
Christ knows how it could almost triple in price,especially as its just a few farm gates in a roundabout.
But one of the ward councillors is a Peter Gruen,and he appears to be involved in all this.
This is the same guy who stood against the use of the £20m windfall from the sale of the airport for an arena (yes,i know im a big supporter of the arena) and was ready to try and block this allocation of funds for such an important project.
I wrote an email to Mr Gruen expressing my opinions about how an arena would benefit the city,his reply was that the £20m would be better spent on,and i quote:-
"Seating and public paved areas across the city,so everyone can benefit"
Well,god help us.
If he can take a £50,000 project and make it cost £143,000 then what could he have done with £20m?
Mr Gruen is a Labour man,and so am i.
But clearly this chap is out of his depth,and it may be of benefit for the labour ward of Cross Gates to have another candidate. |
My perception from the YEP article cnosni is that the Councillors were attmpting to put the blame for the increases upon the 'City Planners' for thier insistance upon changes - we should remeber though that our elected few always had, but did not take, the option to abandon the project thus they must be held accountable for this ludicrously unjustifyable waste of money. Was there any public consultation I wonder - particularly regarding the cost? |
It is frequently claimed that there was public consultation, but I live in the Cross Gates and Whinmoor ward and was never asked.
I think it's also shameful that the local councillors are now trying to lay the blame for all this on council officials via the media, when they were the ones pushing the blasted plan through.
As for Peter Gruen, according to a piece in last nights YEP, he is also chairman of Aire Valley Homes (the ALMO that manages council housing for the east / south of the city) who finished the last financial year £11.5 million over budget. So whats £140k when you're in charge of spending £11.5 million more than you have from the public purse?
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cnosni
User
Location:
Leeds
Joined on:
28-Mar-2007 21:17:06
Posted:
2685 posts
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| chameleon wrote: |
| cnosni wrote: |
Well,perhaps i shouldnt pass comment on this issue as i dont live in Cross Gates,but i do live in Leeds and there is an extra spin on all this.
when the original idea was mooted the price was £50,000 and was to be funded from local regeneration schemes that were set up to allow locals and ward councillors in particular areas to do with what they wish (withstanding a dirty weekend in Amsterdam).
Its now blown out of proportion and is a city wide political debate,or should i say argument.
It would appear that the changes to the original idea were altered at ward councillor level,not city level.
So it seems that the local councillors (who obviously do sit on the city council as well) were behind the changes that escalated the price of the art work to £70.000 then £143,000.
Christ knows how it could almost triple in price,especially as its just a few farm gates in a roundabout.
But one of the ward councillors is a Peter Gruen,and he appears to be involved in all this.
This is the same guy who stood against the use of the £20m windfall from the sale of the airport for an arena (yes,i know im a big supporter of the arena) and was ready to try and block this allocation of funds for such an important project.
I wrote an email to Mr Gruen expressing my opinions about how an arena would benefit the city,his reply was that the £20m would be better spent on,and i quote:-
"Seating and public paved areas across the city,so everyone can benefit"
Well,god help us.
If he can take a £50,000 project and make it cost £143,000 then what could he have done with £20m?
Mr Gruen is a Labour man,and so am i.
But clearly this chap is out of his depth,and it may be of benefit for the labour ward of Cross Gates to have another candidate. |
My perception from the YEP article cnosni is that the Councillors were attmpting to put the blame for the increases upon the 'City Planners' for thier insistance upon changes - we should remeber though that our elected few always had, but did not take, the option to abandon the project thus they must be held accountable for this ludicrously unjustifyable waste of money. Was there any public consultation I wonder - particularly regarding the cost? |
Check the letters page from last nights yep,letter from Andrew Carter.
He and Mr Gruen have crossed swords in the past
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chameleon
User
Location:
Leeds
Joined on:
29-Mar-2007 22:46:49
Posted:
3607 posts
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I take it there is some discontent within on this?
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raveydavey
User
Location:
Leeds
Joined on:
22-Mar-2007 20:29:07
Posted:
1118 posts
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| chameleon wrote: |
| I take it there is some discontent within on this? |
As an observation, the ward councillors have form for blaming nameless council officials for things going wrong in the past.
Clearly we don't know the full facts (and are never likely to) but I would imagine that there are times when a nameless scapegoat can seem like an attractive option, especially when they don't have the right to reply.
I'm suprised the officials union representative hasn't had something to say on the matter.
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chameleon
User
Location:
Leeds
Joined on:
29-Mar-2007 22:46:49
Posted:
3607 posts
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| raveydavey wrote: |
| chameleon wrote: |
| I take it there is some discontent within on this? |
As an observation, the ward councillors have form for blaming nameless council officials for things going wrong in the past.
Clearly we don't know the full facts (and are never likely to) but I would imagine that there are times when a nameless scapegoat can seem like an attractive option, especially when they don't have the right to reply.
I'm suprised the officials union representative hasn't had something to say on the matter. |
Bottom line is they always had the option of saying NO - but they didn't! That's what people should remember when road repairs leave the surface worse than when it strated or Day Centres close thotough lack of demand - whilst onw person needs such a facility, there surely is a demand - several closing around us for that reason.
I rant rather off-topic terhaps - but it's still rate payers money
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raveydavey
User
Location:
Leeds
Joined on:
22-Mar-2007 20:29:07
Posted:
1118 posts
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This is the story that just won't go away.
Tonights YEP has a great story of how some local wag has stuck half a dozen cardboard cut out sheep on the roundabout!
And Councillor Graeme has blamed the YEP for all the bad publicity surrounding the gates, claiming they've stirred the story up - and then refused to comment on the sheep!!!!
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chameleon
User
Location:
Leeds
Joined on:
29-Mar-2007 22:46:49
Posted:
3607 posts
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| raveydavey wrote: |
This is the story that just won't go away.
Tonights YEP has a great story of how some local wag has stuck half a dozen cardboard cut out sheep on the roundabout!
And Councillor Graeme has blamed the YEP for all the bad publicity surrounding the gates, claiming they've stirred the story up - and then refused to comment on the sheep!!!! |
What ever the YEP might or might not have contributed, they did at least give factual information. It is that information which is a matter for the Public Domain which has 'stirred people up' and those responsible for bringing the facts into being are I believe Carter's associates are they not? Hiding and apron strings comes to mind more and more often.
Perhaps if our elected lot heard rather than simply listened to people, their lives may be less stressfull!
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Si
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Location:
Otley
Joined on:
10-Oct-2007 11:52:40
Posted:
3395 posts
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The councillor's attitude reminds me of finding a "good day to bury bad news." They canvass for votes (sometimes via the press) and then blame them for "stirring up" this kind of disastrous waste of money.
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chameleon
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Location:
Leeds
Joined on:
29-Mar-2007 22:46:49
Posted:
3607 posts
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raveydavey
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Location:
Leeds
Joined on:
22-Mar-2007 20:29:07
Posted:
1118 posts
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I'm struggling to see what this enquiry will achieve, except possibly blowing another £143k on finding a scapegoat. Regardless of who is to blame, they won't be made to refund the £143k, will they?
And if the Labour ward councillors are responsible, I'll wager you a shiny £1 coin right now that they claim it's political posturing from the Lib-Con administration. And then demand an inquiry into the inquiry, possibly.
The best possible solution, from my point of view, is that we find a farmer who needs some gates and ask him to come and collect the ones off the roundabout.
The Roundhay ward councillors spent their "regeneration fund" money on - additional parking outside the shops on Roundhay Road, improving and resurfacing the car park at Oakwood Clock and installing benches, etc which have the benefits of helping boost local businesses and provide amenities for local residents.
Whilst we get the most expensive farmyard gates in the Western hemisphere....
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chameleon
User
Location:
Leeds
Joined on:
29-Mar-2007 22:46:49
Posted:
3607 posts
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| raveydavey wrote: |
I'm struggling to see what this enquiry will achieve, except possibly blowing another £143k on finding a scapegoat. Regardless of who is to blame, they won't be made to refund the £143k, will they?
And if the Labour ward councillors are responsible, I'll wager you a shiny £1 coin right now that they claim it's political posturing from the Lib-Con administration. And then demand an inquiry into the inquiry, possibly.
The best possible solution, from my point of view, is that we find a farmer who needs some gates and ask him to come and collect the ones off the roundabout.
The Roundhay ward councillors spent their "regeneration fund" money on - additional parking outside the shops on Roundhay Road, improving and resurfacing the car park at Oakwood Clock and installing benches, etc which have the benefits of helping boost local businesses and provide amenities for local residents.
Whilst we get the most expensive farmyard gates in the Western hemisphere.... |
But only if the farmer has room for six cardboard sheep
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chameleon
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Location:
Leeds
Joined on:
29-Mar-2007 22:46:49
Posted:
3607 posts
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Brandy
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Location:
Joined on:
21-Feb-2007 12:33:58
Posted:
1469 posts
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chameleon
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Location:
Leeds
Joined on:
29-Mar-2007 22:46:49
Posted:
3607 posts
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| Brandy wrote: |
Has anybody seen my GGGates lol
(pic courtesy of brandy,he never gives credit lol) |
Priceless! At this rate, we'll soon have 'em worth every penny!
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chameleon
User
Location:
Leeds
Joined on:
29-Mar-2007 22:46:49
Posted:
3607 posts
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| chameleon wrote: |
| Brandy wrote: |
Has anybody seen my GGGates lol
(pic courtesy of brandy,he never gives credit lol) |
Priceless! At this rate, we'll soon have 'em worth every penny! |
They're still there. Now, if the leeds crest were to show hung councillors instead of hung sheep, it would have a fitting place to hang on these gates  . (getting my councilor, erm, meaning, Brandy) that would be good
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cnosni
User
Location:
Leeds
Joined on:
28-Mar-2007 21:17:06
Posted:
2685 posts
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New series of one man and his dog due to be filmed around Leeds.
Any suggestions????
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