|
|
drapesy
User
Location:
Burley, Leeds
Joined on:
24-Feb-2007 21:20:32
Posted:
2145 posts
|
Thats a great find Tasa. Unfortunately it wont let you copy the image - but if you look at it on the Link Tasa posted and compare to the blue plaque at the bottom of page 36 you can see that they are definitely the same.
Nothing to do with the skulls' but a nice bit of history nonetheless.
|
|
|
Si
User
Location:
Otley
Joined on:
10-Oct-2007 11:52:40
Posted:
3397 posts
|
That's wierd. My computer went awol yesterday, too.
Couldn't post a thing - I spent ages typing a post about my thoughts on the buildings of Crown Court after our visit, and when I pressed 'post' it vanished into the ether and I couldn't get back onto the site (or any site.) Bloody annoying as I can only type with one finger (not the result of an horrendous accident - just useless at typing!)
Re the 'circles' on Rebop/Crown and Fleece.
At first I thought these were just rendered over tie-bars (iron bars which are attached front and back of an old building literally to hold it together.) However, on closer inspection, they are in the wrong places. Firstly, they wouldn't be put that close to a supporting wall, and secondly, they are usually placed between floor and ceiling (so you don't have to climb over them!) There is a tie-bar on the property in the right place (higher up in the middle of the building and between floors)with a bolt head on it. They could be plaques of some sort (rendered over for protection?) as there are two which "line-up."
Well spotted, Phill!
Re the Skull Building.
Yes, Phill, I agree this must have been built between 1830ish and 1847ish. The angled wall on the earlier maps proves this, as there isn't room for it looking at the existing old part of the wall (gable-end part.) The building is much altered. The wall up Crown Court (behind the pub) only looks early 20th century, judging by the bricks and concrete window sills. The buildings next to it further back up the yard are probably 1930s, going by the metal window frames, concrete frame structure and flat roof.
Looking at the gable-end wall and skull wall again, the brickwork on the left-hand corner is the same as that up the yard and is therefore probably 20th century. Unfortunately, this is where Phill's stone is set. I just think it's a bodged job using anything which came to hand. As mentioned earlier in the thread, I also think the roofs have been replaced at some time. The Victorians weren't big on flat roofs! It seems unusual that just part of the original end wall of this place was retained. Why not just flatten it and start again? It would be much easier. BTW the skulls weren't set into the older brickwork of the wall, but the newer altered part higher up.
PS Great work, Brandy!!!
|
|
|
LS1
User
Location:
Leeds
Joined on:
23-Jul-2007 13:00:30
Posted:
1307 posts
|
| simonm wrote: |
| Forgot to add, someonementioned that the skulls appear to have been coated is some black substance. Mmmmm, not sure, they just look smoke / smog and weathered to me. They look very similar to the old B&W images to me. Sorry, just thought i'd mention it! |
This is a substance that Dysons painted onto the skulls to stop them weathering even more.
|
|
|
Brandy
User
Location:
Joined on:
21-Feb-2007 12:33:58
Posted:
1469 posts
|
|
|
LS1
User
Location:
Leeds
Joined on:
23-Jul-2007 13:00:30
Posted:
1307 posts
|
|
|
LS1
User
Location:
Leeds
Joined on:
23-Jul-2007 13:00:30
Posted:
1307 posts
|
|
|
Brandy
User
Location:
Joined on:
21-Feb-2007 12:33:58
Posted:
1469 posts
|
two great minds eh lol
|
|
|
cnosni
User
Location:
Leeds
Joined on:
28-Mar-2007 21:17:06
Posted:
2685 posts
|
Thats the site i looked at,but it was before Phil did the close up,i think youve got it Tasa
|
|
|
wiggy
User
Location:
essex
Joined on:
26-Jun-2007 14:09:49
Posted:
1073 posts
|
| cnosni wrote: |
Thats the site i looked at,but it was before Phil did the close up,i think youve got it Tasa
|
thank God...
|
|
|
cnosni
User
Location:
Leeds
Joined on:
28-Mar-2007 21:17:06
Posted:
2685 posts
|
Si said
"It seems unusual that just part of the original end wall of this place was retained. Why not just flatten it and start again? It would be much easier. BTW the skulls weren't set into the older brickwork of the wall, but the newer altered part higher up."
This also puzzled me,this means the skulls were either:-
Removed from the original brickwork and then replaced into the new brickwork when the flat roof was constructed,or for what ever other reason warranted a new bit of brickwork on top of the skull building.
OR
It was not there until the new brickwork was put in.
Could the latter fit in with the theory that the skulls were put in some while after the supposed deaths,those newer bricks look manufactured and uniform,as opposed to the varying sized bricks in the older part.
If this is the case then it does bring us closer to 1838,the year the medieaval church was demolished.
I dont think we will ever know that one though.
|
|
|
cnosni
User
Location:
Leeds
Joined on:
28-Mar-2007 21:17:06
Posted:
2685 posts
|
Though this fire mark isnt to do with the skulls,it is interesting,and seems to be coming part of the broader story of this end of Kirkgate and Crown Street.
It is all relevant because we have dug into the skulls surroundings and the history of those surroundings to try and solve the skull problem in th effort of trying to reinstate them to somewhere more suitable.
I wonder if that firemark would clean up,it looks like its the plaster that covers it.
And who do we tell about this,EMCO own it so i think its probably them who shoul dbe told.
It just goes to show that sometimes your first gut feelings are correct,when you see something and think
"I wonder if thats.......?"
Well Si,Phil,LS1 we were right.
|
|
|
drapesy
User
Location:
Burley, Leeds
Joined on:
24-Feb-2007 21:20:32
Posted:
2145 posts
|
|
|
Si
User
Location:
Otley
Joined on:
10-Oct-2007 11:52:40
Posted:
3397 posts
|
Re the Old Prison theory of the origin of the skulls.
Just looked at the Godfrey OS 1847 map, and halfway between Vicar Lane and Briggate, on Kirkgate, it's marked on the south side, "Site of Old Prison," so not far from Crown Court, though not as close as Chris's Thomas Clavell Chantry. Do we know when the chantry was demolished? It was founded 1430.
|
|
|
Brandy
User
Location:
Joined on:
21-Feb-2007 12:33:58
Posted:
1469 posts
|
| drapesy wrote: |
| Brandy wrote: |
was the nags head yard the other side of the bridge then drapesy?
is it just me or is this website acting strange today??
|
Here's a google earth pic - showing the site of the Old Nag's Head in Red.
The Yellow cross marks the Duck and Drake(former Brougham Arms)
Green marks position of the 'Green Parrot'
Blue marks position of the 'Old Crown'
|
cheers drapesy thanks for that
|
|
|
Si
User
Location:
Otley
Joined on:
10-Oct-2007 11:52:40
Posted:
3397 posts
|
I think someone asked earlier if Crown Court was at one time busier. Almost certainly. The pub's cellar delivery hatch was down there, and several wall corners were built or altered with curved bricks. This was to help prevent damage by cart wheel rims/hubs, suggesting heavier traffic. Incidentally, the front corner of the pub (right-hand side when viewed from Crown Street) is also curved, so there must have been access to Crown Court from here at some time. The 1847 map shows another thin building butting-up to the pub, but it isn't marked with an "X" denoting a covered ginnel.
|
|
|
Baggpuss
User
Location:
Garforth
Joined on:
25-Mar-2008 13:54:50
Posted:
4 posts
|
|
|
Si
User
Location:
Otley
Joined on:
10-Oct-2007 11:52:40
Posted:
3397 posts
|
That's fascinating. Looks like the Albert plaque is very rare, then, if they only traded 1864/5. I wonder if they got Prince Albert's permission to use his name and likeness?!!
|
|
|
Phill_d
User
Location:
Leeds
Joined on:
21-Feb-2007 10:52:59
Posted:
2638 posts
|
|
|
Brandy
User
Location:
Joined on:
21-Feb-2007 12:33:58
Posted:
1469 posts
|
you might be on to something there phil!
hefty steel fence for security reasons maybe?
two skulls as some kind of macabre warning possibly?
my head totally done in and battered definitely lol
|
|
|
Si
User
Location:
Otley
Joined on:
10-Oct-2007 11:52:40
Posted:
3397 posts
|
I think the railings just seperate Crown Court (left) from the ginnel running past the pub to Crown Street, possibly marking property boundaries. I don't think they are there to fence-off the skull buildings.
The building with the gas-lamp is the back of Hills.
|
|
|
Si
User
Location:
Otley
Joined on:
10-Oct-2007 11:52:40
Posted:
3397 posts
|
I've managed to find an address for Dan Cruickshank. It might be worth a punt - you never know. No turn unstoned.
Phill, can I have your permission to send him some of your pics to illustrate the story, please?
|
|
|
Phill_d
User
Location:
Leeds
Joined on:
21-Feb-2007 10:52:59
Posted:
2638 posts
|
No I didn't think the fence was to protect the skulls, I just wondered if it told us anything about ownership or It's use. The building at the back of Hills. Would it have been a house originally, It does look it. The skull building seems to be in there yard to me? We know it was a seperate small building, Access must have been from inside that yard. Were the ladies loo's are now?
|
|
|
Si
User
Location:
Otley
Joined on:
10-Oct-2007 11:52:40
Posted:
3397 posts
|
Must admit, Phill, it does look like a cottage.
|
|
|
Phill_d
User
Location:
Leeds
Joined on:
21-Feb-2007 10:52:59
Posted:
2638 posts
|
Gelders says it was established since 1859. That goes back a long way. It's a pity we can't get any more shots of the Crown inn & this area. There's a wealth of stuff on Leodis but not around here.
|
|
|
Si
User
Location:
Otley
Joined on:
10-Oct-2007 11:52:40
Posted:
3397 posts
|
Can I send your pictures, Phill? See post above.
|
|
|