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Phill_d
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Leeds
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21-Feb-2007 10:52:59
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Well I just had a little search to see what was mainly going off in 1780, the American revolutionary war seemed to be the thing that kept coming up. In 1780 it was still going strong so it says here.
http://www.nps.gov/archive/cowp/Timeline.htm#1780
If we can pin point the date we have a better chance of finding the records for those deaths. The story I found seemed to say this press gang activity had never been seen in Leeds before, although Geordie found a piece saying it had happened the year before as well. The Voluntary organisation was formed in 1782 so it might have seen the end of any need to press gang men into the army?? Still all that would be irrelevant if the pub wasn't as old as that. I find it hard to date the building to be honest. We keep getting the same story as folk lore but we can't find the actual source. The info will be out there somewhere.
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Phill_d
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Leeds
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21-Feb-2007 10:52:59
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| Si wrote: |
Has anyone e-mailed this Paul Dyson to tell him of his family's part in The Great Leeds Skulls Mystery?
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This i a good point Si. I seemed to have missed this bit before. What's best to do here do we think?
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Si
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Otley
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10-Oct-2007 11:52:40
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3397 posts
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You're right, Phill, it seems the American war was still going strong despite the 1776 Declaration of Independance. Is this Tarleton bloke the one commemorated in The General Tarleton pub up Ripon way?
As for Paul Dyson - I think we should e-mail him. You never know, he might have some information for us? What do you think? Perhaps give him the link to this thread?
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Phill_d
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Leeds
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21-Feb-2007 10:52:59
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| Si wrote: |
You're right, Phill, it seems the American war was still going strong despite the 1776 Declaration of Independance. Is this Tarleton bloke the one commemorated in The General Tarleton pub up Ripon way?
As for Paul Dyson - I think we should e-mail him. You never know, he might have some information for us? What do you think? |
Yes absolutely Si. We found the skulls, what better than to find out who the guys were as well. It would be good to find out a bit of Leeds history to put back in the books. That is of course the skulls were actually for this 'press gang' event. I'll get round to putting a story with pictures about it so we can keep adding the bits we know and show people what we have so far as well.
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Si
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So do you want me to e-mail him, then, Phill?
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Phill_d
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Leeds
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Yes go on mate. Fingers crossed 
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Si
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Otley
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Si
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Right, I've filled Paul Dyson in on the story. He may already know it, or it could be all news to him. I've given him the link to the thread, so let's see what happens.
If you're looking in, Paul - Hello!
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Phill_d
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Leeds
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Phill_d
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Si
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Otley
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Could be. Interesting that the article mentions The Crown Inn, and not The Crown and Fleece. It also says the soldiers were draft dodgers, and were hiding in the hayloft, not just sleeping.
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Si
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Otley
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Just noticed the Raine Bros ad (plumbers merchants, 27 Crown Street.) Weren't Ion Dyson's plumbers?
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Phill_d
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Yes. However irrelevant you think things first are there are always little snippets of things to go on. The more I look at this February 1780 date and the general choas going on around this press gang visit, the more I'm starting to feel this could be the date were looking for. If only we can date the Crown or Crown and Fleece. We know it had stables and the area was used by the military. What is the connection were looking for?
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Phill_d
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Leeds
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| Si wrote: |
| Just noticed the Raine Bros ad (plumbers merchants, 27 Crown Street.) Weren't Ion Dyson's plumbers? |
I first thought the Plumbers were one and the same. Anyway I've put those paper scans up. I'm sure there are clues there.
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Si
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The architecture of the place certainly looks old enough to me, but I'm no expert. Drapesy seems pretty good on this sort of thing.
Maybe the pub was used as some sort of recruiting office?
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Phill_d
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Yes. I think the place looks old enough from Drapseys shot. I still can't decide if it is one or two buildings. Also it doesn't look very much like a pub to me. I wonder if it had other uses before?
There's a bit about the English army mobilization during the war in the American colonies in the period 1775-1783 here
http://www.jstor.org/pss/577103
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fevlad
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leeds
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07-Feb-2008 10:17:24
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455 posts
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| Si wrote: |
| drapesy wrote: |
If you get tonight's YEP theres is a photo of certain Secret Leeders thats not included on the website link!
I note that the article begins
"FOR more than 200 years, this ghostly pair of carved skulls took pride of place outside a Leeds city centre pub"
Well, no , not really - they were tucked away down a back alley and hardly anyone knew they were there - but journo's tend to live by the old adage of not letting facts get in the way of a good story!
Still - great to see it in print and it should bring some good publicity. |
I agree, Drapesy. Apart from a couple of small errors it was an accurate story. Let's hope it generates more interest.
Wasn't the American War of Independence in the 1770s? I can't think which war took place in the 1780s, but probably involved the French!
Fevlad mentioned the gibbet in Otley. There were actually two (blood-thirsty lot, Otliensians!) One was on Pool Road aptly named Gallows Hill (and aptly next to the modern day cemetery - also near The Summercross,) and the other was to the west, where Weston Lane turns sharply to the right at the entrance lodge to Weston Hall. A small knoll can be seen through the gates, and this is where the gibbet stood.
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gallows hill was the one I was thinking of.
maybe I'm being a bit fanciful but this would have been an ideal place for a public execution and subsequent display of the body
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Si
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Otley
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Yes, although much altered since, Pool Road and East Chevin Road were once the only routes to Leeds from Otley. Leeds Road was built as a turnpike in the 1840s. It still has toll booths at Gay Lane and Old Pool Bank (not in use!)
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Phill_d
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Leeds
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The effect on Leeds during the American revolutionary war is documented well here.
The wasted blood of England's sons and the fruitlessly consumed treasures of her exhausted cities and embarrassed people. It was an experience of which the most foulest of lesson was about to proceed.
The lesson of statecraft governing a land into misery and rebellion. It was an a apology for the ignoble crowd, It was an occasion for the use of all rustic arms that fury could supply.
The passion evoked by this bad government were recorded in the Leeds Mercury in April 25th 1780.
TO THE PRINTER OF THE LEEDS MERCURY.
During the hated struggles in America and it's consequent difficulties in the Mediterranean, Leeds as the centre of the manufacturing district had been bled most profusely, and suffered in it's commercial relations most disastrously. The 10th, 23rd and 33rd regiments were recruited in Leeds and district and when the 52nd was sent from America it came to Leeds to be restored to it's regimental entirety, It finished it's restoration in Wakefield. Trade was crippled and financial ruin was widespread and most calamitous. It's two local regiments the 33rd and 51st, after having drained it of scores of youths, were now the wasted skeletons of war. craving for more men, even so might be sent them from the depths of it's goals.
I don't know if there are any clues there, but I for one find this a fascinating piece of Leeds history I know very little about. It's good to transfer some text from press cuttings dating back to Dicks day for future reference on the net.
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Si
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Otley
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10-Oct-2007 11:52:40
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3397 posts
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| Si wrote: |
Right, I've filled Paul Dyson in on the story. He may already know it, or it could be all news to him. I've given him the link to the thread, so let's see what happens.
If you're looking in, Paul - Hello! |
I've tried e-mailing Paul Dyson twice now, and unfortunately it keeps coming back "address rejected." Anyone know why?
Phill, do you want to have a go?
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LS1
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Leeds
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LS1
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Leeds
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Si
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Otley
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Yes, they do appear more weathered, Lee. We know the article pic was taken before 1968, but we've no idea when the other was taken, but it must be later (obviously!) Presumably there's a fair gap. Perhaps the demolition of the other wall speeded up the process? They need rain-water protection.
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Geordie-exile
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06-Feb-2008 22:39:43
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I emailed Dyson when I posted the link but haven't had a reply nor an email bounce.
I also emailed the plumbing company that was originally in partnership with Ion Dyson to see if they had any more records or old photos but no reply from them either.
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LS1
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Leeds
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23-Jul-2007 13:00:30
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| Si wrote: |
| Yes, they do appear more weathered, Lee. We know the article pic was taken before 1968, but we've no idea when the other was taken, but it must be later (obviously!) Presumably there's a fair gap. Perhaps the demolition of the other wall speeded up the process? They need rain-water protection. |
I wonder then if they are older than we think or not? Who knows, the curiosity is killing me!!
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