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Si
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Otley
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10-Oct-2007 11:52:40
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Just to add to Drapesy's post. We know this is definately the right spot, not just because of the obvious new brickwork, but if you look under the skulls, there is a brick with a distinctive mark. This appears on both Drapesey's new pic and Forgetful Cat's original pic of the skulls in situ. As Drapesey pointed out (in the Duck and Drake!) the skull's new home and their old home share a CCTV camera. Wierd!!!
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drapesy
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Burley, Leeds
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24-Feb-2007 21:20:32
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LS1
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Good day today, just hope that the photographer guy gets the story right!!!
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drapesy
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Burley, Leeds
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chameleon
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Leeds
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| drapesy wrote: |
Hope you dont mind Phill - but I'm putting up your pic that was on page 7 again - this shows the wall(left hand side) where the skulls were.
Ive put it up to compare it with... |
I looked at this with the Bird' eye view on Live Search Maps. Don't know if you can copy their images to here, but centre on the yard and use the rotate tool - doesn't go in very close, but it's easy to pick out the wall to give a perspective view of just where is being talked about.
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Geordie-exile
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Phill_d
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Leeds
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21-Feb-2007 10:52:59
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Thats ok Drapsey. use as many pics as you like on here. There's no copyright here! It was a good day. thanks to yourself, Chris, Si. Lee & Dave. I had a few to many brews too lol 
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chameleon
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| Geordie-exile wrote: |
Dunno if this is of any interest but you can click on bird's eye view and rotate the map:
http://tinyurl.com/3ebjzv |
Yes, that's what I said, but didn't get the image to upload.
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Geordie-exile
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| chameleon wrote: |
| Geordie-exile wrote: |
Dunno if this is of any interest but you can click on bird's eye view and rotate the map:
http://tinyurl.com/3ebjzv |
Yes, that's what I said, but didn't get the image to upload. |
D'oh. 
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cnosni
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Leeds
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28-Mar-2007 21:17:06
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| Phill_d wrote: |
| Thats ok Drapsey. use as many pics as you like on here. There's no copyright here! It was a good day. thanks to yourself, Chris, Si. Lee & Dave. I had a few to many brews too lol |
OK ,rub it in Phil,i enjoyed my coca cola any way so there!!
Have had a few thoughts about getting this moving along viz resiting of the Skulls.
We know EMCO own the area and are wanting to do something with the old White Cloth Hall,so how about some approach to these people,see if they would be interested in having the skulls placed on the rear of a new white cloth hall,overlooking its original site.This of course would have to be made possible with some financial assistance from EMCO.
Also we would have to get the skulls safely removed from their present home,i was thinking of something along the lines of contacting the masons who do restoration work on York Minster.
We could also approach the council,the Civic trust (though i think someone else would be more appropriate in doing this),even the Heritage Lottery fund for financial contributions.
As we discussed today it would only be a few hundred quid to have them removed,repair the wall they are in now,and then resited with some sort of plaque in a suitable location.
If we could get some sort of small donation from a number of various parties then we could get enough together to make this work.
As EMCO own all this area then perhaps seeing if we can make contact with these people to see what their plans are for the area. This should be a first possible step,just imagine if they are going to still try and recreate the White Cloth Hall then the Skulls would look pretty good on the back of it,overlooking the now decrepitand probably soon to be demolished structure that they occupied since the early 19th century til 1974.
Then we would have to liase with whoever is the current "guardian" of the Skulls (they cant be described as owners),see what their position is on the Skulls.
If we get cooperation from them then thats good.
If not then we would have to go down the path of consulting with such institutions as e.g The Civic Trust,English Heritage,National Trust etc and see what case there was for the long term safety of the skulls.
However,we would have to be able to demonstrate that they are worth saving in a historical/architectural sense,and not just because they are connected to a piece of folklore,which to be honest,we do not yet have any proof is true,and even if it is,then on the face of it its not the most convincing argument for public bodies to allott funds for the skulls preservation .
I think that if we can put forward a case that these skulls are a unique example of a particular type of sculpture in this area from a particular era, and even possibly from an important building that was torn down in the Victorian period then perhaps there is a slim chance we could get the backing of one or two of the bodies i have mentioned.
So hopefully we should get some sort of response from the YAS
If we dont hear from the YAS within the next week then perhaps some other equally qualified body.
Any thoughts ??
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cnosni
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Phill_d
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Yeah. I like the link with the York Minster too. I smell a nice little educational visit and lesson in the art of stone masonry and an interesting behind the scenes tour of the minster if we word a nice letter together here Chris. Any thoughts?
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Phill_d
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Leeds
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regarding Kevin O ' Grady.
Hi Phill, via Suzanne Mctaggart Y.E.P
I hope everything went ok with the picture. I have just written the words and spoken to Dr Kevin Grady of the Leeds Civic Trust. He was aware of the story but said he'd only received a vague email - he would like to see all the information (ie) something that's a bit more concrete. If you wanted to do this / suggest it to the people at Secret Leeds (ie), I think he'd really appreciate it.
I'll let you know when it's going in! Have a good weekend, thanks S
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cnosni
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Leeds
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2685 posts
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| Phill_d wrote: |
regarding Kevin O ' Grady.
Hi Phill, via Suzanne Mctaggart Y.E.P
I hope everything went ok with the picture. I have just written the words and spoken to Dr Kevin Grady of the Leeds Civic Trust. He was aware of the story but said he'd only received a vague email - he would like to see all the information (ie) something that's a bit more concrete. If you wanted to do this / suggest it to the people at Secret Leeds (ie), I think he'd really appreciate it.
I'll let you know when it's going in! Have a good weekend, thanks S |
Vague email?what does Dr O'Grady mean?(ahem)
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Geordie-exile
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06-Feb-2008 22:39:43
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I wonder if Ion Dyson are uncommunicative because they're worried they'll be in trouble for removing the skulls?
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cnosni
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| Geordie-exile wrote: |
| I wonder if Ion Dyson are uncommunicative because they're worried they'll be in trouble for removing the skulls? |
i didnt know that contact with Dysons had been made,have i missed something?
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cnosni
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Okay done abit of digging about the Crown and Fleece pub.
We had speculatedthat possibly the Crown and Fleece were two seperate pubs,as the building as it is now is two seperate shops AND it looks as though they are of contemporary construction but do appear to be seperate buildings.
So i looked at the 1841 census and with a bit of tracking i managed to identify a publican living on Crown Street.
Though the pub is not named the publican is,he is a John Ainsley,aged 55,born Yorkshire.There is also a Sarah Ainsley ,aged 50,in the same household.
I then had a look at an online transcript of White's Directory of 1837, "professions and trades"for LEEDS.
http://www.genuki.org.uk/big/eng/YKS/WRY/Leeds/Leeds37aDry.html
Under innkeepers there is a listing for:-
Crown & Fleece, J Ainley, 3 Crown st .
This would appear to be the same chap in the 1841 census,though the number of the property on Crown Street is at odds with what we do know the number of the old pub to be.
So if they were ever two seperate pubs then it was before 1837,as the directory clearly states Crown and Fleece,and the 1841 census shows just one publican on Crown Street.
Perhaps a visit to the shop may provide some answers.
Any way on the subject of the Civic Trust,if they want something concrete then what are we going to do about it?
Can we all come to some sort of agreement as to what we should say to the Civic trust,post some thoughts on here and then see if we can amalgamate the various bits into a coherent(ahem ahem) message,which i think someone else apart from me should do as im probably persona non grata and any email from me wil be binned.
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chameleon
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Leeds
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| Phill_d wrote: |
| Yeah. I like the link with the York Minster too. I smell a nice little educational visit and lesson in the art of stone masonry and an interesting behind the scenes tour of the minster if we word a nice letter together here Chris. Any thoughts? |
I smell Phill being sidetracked....
I think what is already on here could be knocked up into a very good 'business case' and if kept bouyant and in the public face, should atttract some funding, though I suspect it will be a little more than a few hundred as a one-off job.
The Civic Trust may well come on to this one, if the history is substantiated there may even be scope for a plaque, you never know'
(Geordie, cnosni - I couldn't even get a link to work to that Bird's Eye view. Missing something, clues welcome ).
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cnosni
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Leeds
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| chameleon wrote: |
| Phill_d wrote: |
| Yeah. I like the link with the York Minster too. I smell a nice little educational visit and lesson in the art of stone masonry and an interesting behind the scenes tour of the minster if we word a nice letter together here Chris. Any thoughts? |
I smell Phill being sidetracked....
I think what is already on here could be knocked up into a very good 'business case' and if kept bouyant and in the public face, should atttract some funding, though I suspect it will be a little more than a few hundred as a one-off job.
The Civic Trust may well come on to this one, if the history is substantiated there may even be scope for a plaque, you never know'
(Geordie, cnosni - I couldn't even get a link to work to that Bird's Eye view. Missing something, clues welcome ). |
Sustantiating the history is the problem,there must be some contemporary record of the event in the hay loft.
But some of us think that these skulls are much much older than the event with the recruits,hence trying to get the YAS involved,see if they could give us a possible date for the carving of the skulls.
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chameleon
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Agreed cnosni. Everything I've seen, albeit not definitive, comes back to the impressed soldiers and whether carved for that event, or acquired from elsewhere, were still to comemorate that, I think this wouldl be what will lend weight to any return and protection.
I can't help thinking that if they were simply pillaged from somewhere for no particular reason, their significance may be viewed differently - and that would be shame, so personally, I rather hope they did originate at that time.
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Geordie-exile
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| Forgetful Cat wrote: |
In the surrealist pamphlet, Gareth Brown says that the original location was occupied by a company called Ion Dyson, which relocated to a purpose built office block on Buslingthorpe lane in the 1970's, taking the skulls with them.
This
http://www.leedsonline.co.uk/info/938/
suggests the building still bears the company name, though they are no longer there.
Gareth states that he tried to contact Ion Dyson without success. A quick google and companies house check shows that they are now registered at a pub in York, and still trading.
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That's where I got the idea that Ion Dyson hadn't been contacted but perhaps no one's been in touch with them at York. Might be worth a go?
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Geordie-exile
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Geordie-exile
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chameleon
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I' having trouble working out how they got to be on Buslingthorpe Lane. . . Have I missed this?
That building looks strangely familiar, like one I did some work in years ago - is it/was it the Leeds base of the Rathbone Charity?
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LS1
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Leeds
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just checked the YEP, nothing threre but judging by the post by Phill about the e-mail re Dr Grady I dont think it'll be in today!
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