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LS1
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Location:
Leeds
Joined on:
23-Jul-2007 13:00:30
Posted:
1307 posts
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According to Wikipedia:
A freestone is a stone used in architecture for molding, tracery and other work required to be worked with the chisel. The stone must be fine-grained, uniform and soft enough to be cut easily without shattering or splitting. Some sources say that the stone has no grain, but this is incorrect. Oolitic stones are generally used, although in some countries soft sandstones are used; in some churches an indurated chalk called clunch is employed for internal lining and for carving. Some believe that freemason originally meant one who is capable of carving freestone.
Freestone is also a family name, the origins of which date back to lace makers in the middlelands in England in the 1700's.
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Si
User
Location:
Otley
Joined on:
10-Oct-2007 11:52:40
Posted:
3397 posts
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I'm on it, Tasa. Can't wait!
You're right, Lee. Freestone is a generic term for any easily carved stone, such as sandstone and limestone. Oolitic stones are a type of limestone formed in shallow tropical tidal seas where sand grains are rolled around the seabed picking up layers of cacium. These are called oolites and over a long period are compressed to form stone. An example is magnesian limestone which is used extensively in the Vale of York - Wetherby, Boston Spa and York itself have many buildings made of it. Slates and schists are not freestone as they only readily split in one direction (A level geology to the fore again!)
PS Can't find a freestone society!
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Si
User
Location:
Otley
Joined on:
10-Oct-2007 11:52:40
Posted:
3397 posts
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| cnosni wrote: |
| Ashbourne church skulls |
Nice work, Chris. These skulls appear to be "chinless" (no jaw bone) unlike our chaps.
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Si
User
Location:
Otley
Joined on:
10-Oct-2007 11:52:40
Posted:
3397 posts
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Have found two pictures of the old parish church on www.maggieblanck.com. One is an illustration of the exterior showing it's cruciform shape, and the other is of the interior. I've had a good look, but no skulls, I'm afraid. There are a lot of memorials on the walls, however.
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cnosni
User
Location:
Leeds
Joined on:
28-Mar-2007 21:17:06
Posted:
2685 posts
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| Tasa wrote: |
The present Parish Church is "constructed from stone from the locality and mainly taken from the local Bramley Fall and Horsforth quarries. The interior décor is pure and the detail of the quartz pebble and large sand stone walls still stands firm and expelling vibrancy throughout."
The old church, according to Thoresby, was constructed of freestone (anyone know what that is?). Si, is there a British Freestone Society you can join to find out?!
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So,what would we say the skulls are made from then?
A locally sourced freestone?
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cnosni
User
Location:
Leeds
Joined on:
28-Mar-2007 21:17:06
Posted:
2685 posts
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The similarity between the skulls,one in the parish church and one at Ashbourne would show that the 18th century produced fine examples of accurate carving,almost lifelike.
Our (i use the term our as it seems like they are) are not so detailed.
So all i can think is that this is because they are either
Older,a little less high status and well worn
or
later than the 18th century and a very rudimentary.
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cnosni
User
Location:
Leeds
Joined on:
28-Mar-2007 21:17:06
Posted:
2685 posts
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By the way,Tasa, you were right,it was 1844 when the advert appeared about the Crown and Fleece,check the resource thread page 1.
It also shows John Ainley was the tenant,therefore NOT the owner of the Crown and Fleece.
So his relocation to the Brunswick after all these years was just a move,and not an expansion of his little "Empire"
Lee,i know its a potential pain in the a*** but do you think EMCO would be willing to let us see the deeds to the Crown and Fleece?
This may have a lot of answers regards the stables etc.
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Si
User
Location:
Otley
Joined on:
10-Oct-2007 11:52:40
Posted:
3397 posts
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| cnosni wrote: |
| Tasa wrote: |
The present Parish Church is "constructed from stone from the locality and mainly taken from the local Bramley Fall and Horsforth quarries. The interior décor is pure and the detail of the quartz pebble and large sand stone walls still stands firm and expelling vibrancy throughout."
The old church, according to Thoresby, was constructed of freestone (anyone know what that is?). Si, is there a British Freestone Society you can join to find out?!
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So,what would we say the skulls are made from then?
A locally sourced freestone? |
Almost certainly local sandstone.
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cnosni
User
Location:
Leeds
Joined on:
28-Mar-2007 21:17:06
Posted:
2685 posts
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| Si wrote: |
| cnosni wrote: |
| Tasa wrote: |
The present Parish Church is "constructed from stone from the locality and mainly taken from the local Bramley Fall and Horsforth quarries. The interior décor is pure and the detail of the quartz pebble and large sand stone walls still stands firm and expelling vibrancy throughout."
The old church, according to Thoresby, was constructed of freestone (anyone know what that is?). Si, is there a British Freestone Society you can join to find out?!
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So,what would we say the skulls are made from then?
A locally sourced freestone? |
Almost certainly local sandstone.
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Same as the Old Parish Church then?
and would it be fair enough to say any contemporary ecclesiastical buildings to the Medieaval Parish Church?
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Si
User
Location:
Otley
Joined on:
10-Oct-2007 11:52:40
Posted:
3397 posts
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Yes, Chris, but don't go jumping to any conclusions!
Most stone buildings in Leeds are built of sandstone or millstone grit (or a combination of both.) It would take a real expert to tell exactly which bed a certain piece of stone came from - an almost impossible task! To say the skulls must come from a particular building because they are both sandstone, is a bit like "the sky is blue, my car is blue, therefore my car is made of sky!!!"
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cnosni
User
Location:
Leeds
Joined on:
28-Mar-2007 21:17:06
Posted:
2685 posts
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| Si wrote: |
Yes, Chris, but don't go jumping to any conclusions!
Most stone buildings in Leeds are built of sandstone or millstone grit (or a combination of both.) It would take a real expert to tell exactly which bed a certain piece of stone came from - an almost impossible task! To say the skulls must come from a particular building because they are both sandstone, is a bit like "the sky is blue, my car is blue, therefore my car is made of sky!!!" |
I would certainly agree with you there Si,but a date,all be it roughly,for the skulls carving will do one of two things:-
Pre mid 17th Century- limit the likely local original source for the skulls to 5 / 6 buildings
Post mid 17th century - an increase of potential origins for the skulls,but still not too much as the skulls would be more likely to have come from other than a private residence.
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Si
User
Location:
Otley
Joined on:
10-Oct-2007 11:52:40
Posted:
3397 posts
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That's true.
They still look very old to me.
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Tasa
User
Location:
Headingley, Leeds
Joined on:
08-Oct-2007 15:41:52
Posted:
328 posts
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Tasa
User
Location:
Headingley, Leeds
Joined on:
08-Oct-2007 15:41:52
Posted:
328 posts
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I wonder.....
Just browsing on Leodis Leeds (different from the Leodis photo site) and found this story:
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A strange tale from the Leeds Intelligencer newspaper May 15th 1759:
Last week a Person, who calls himself William Greene, enlisted in Capt. Brown's Company; being found to go by another name, was committed to our Prison, and handcuff'd, on suspicion of being a Deserter. This means that was used to secure him, he told the Gaoler, was to no purpose, for he wou'd soon extricate his Hands; and accordingly did in about a quarter of an hour after he was left in prison.
Immediately upon this , he was handcuff'd with double irons, but with no better effect, for from these, he, with the same Ease, a second time extricated his Hands.
He was then ordered to be extended upon his back, his hands and feet being separately chain'd to the Floor, and the most effectual means made use of to secure him. In this miserable situation, he, with great composure ask'd the Gaoler, whether he wou'd have the irons broke or whole, for he shou'd, with the same ease, a third time extricate himself; as it appear'd to everybody about him to be impossible, he was left to do as he thought proper; and the next morning to the great Surprise and Astonishment of the Gaoler and recruiting party, he was found asleep on a bed of straw, without either Pedicle or Manacle.
At last he told them, if they would let him enjoy his Liberty, he would cheerfully serve his Majesty, if not, neither bars or Bolts should confine him etc. Accordingly he was set at Liberty; and now he walks the streets in corporal's clothes.'
The following week the newspaper carried a further article;
'William Greene, the Recruit in Capt. Brown's Company mention'd in our last to have got off his irons in so extraordinary a manner, was last Friday, a second time, committed to our Prison, on a stronger Suspicion of being a Deserter.'
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As the prison was in Kirkgate at the time, could this story have permeated the neighbourhood and grown whiskers over the years?? Deserters, beds of straw....
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cnosni
User
Location:
Leeds
Joined on:
28-Mar-2007 21:17:06
Posted:
2685 posts
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| Tasa wrote: |
I wonder.....
Just browsing on Leodis Leeds (different from the Leodis photo site) and found this story:
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A strange tale from the Leeds Intelligencer newspaper May 15th 1759:
Last week a Person, who calls himself William Greene, enlisted in Capt. Brown's Company; being found to go by another name, was committed to our Prison, and handcuff'd, on suspicion of being a Deserter. This means that was used to secure him, he told the Gaoler, was to no purpose, for he wou'd soon extricate his Hands; and accordingly did in about a quarter of an hour after he was left in prison.
Immediately upon this , he was handcuff'd with double irons, but with no better effect, for from these, he, with the same Ease, a second time extricated his Hands.
He was then ordered to be extended upon his back, his hands and feet being separately chain'd to the Floor, and the most effectual means made use of to secure him. In this miserable situation, he, with great composure ask'd the Gaoler, whether he wou'd have the irons broke or whole, for he shou'd, with the same ease, a third time extricate himself; as it appear'd to everybody about him to be impossible, he was left to do as he thought proper; and the next morning to the great Surprise and Astonishment of the Gaoler and recruiting party, he was found asleep on a bed of straw, without either Pedicle or Manacle.
At last he told them, if they would let him enjoy his Liberty, he would cheerfully serve his Majesty, if not, neither bars or Bolts should confine him etc. Accordingly he was set at Liberty; and now he walks the streets in corporal's clothes.'
The following week the newspaper carried a further article;
'William Greene, the Recruit in Capt. Brown's Company mention'd in our last to have got off his irons in so extraordinary a manner, was last Friday, a second time, committed to our Prison, on a stronger Suspicion of being a Deserter.'
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As the prison was in Kirkgate at the time, could this story have permeated the neighbourhood and grown whiskers over the years?? Deserters, beds of straw....
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Well its not that far away,not only in a geographical sense but also when the supposed story of the recruits took place.
However he didnt die,but its quite feasble that elements from this article would have made it into the story of the recruits,funny stuff folklore.
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cnosni
User
Location:
Leeds
Joined on:
28-Mar-2007 21:17:06
Posted:
2685 posts
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Phill_d
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Location:
Leeds
Joined on:
21-Feb-2007 10:52:59
Posted:
2638 posts
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Phill_d
User
Location:
Leeds
Joined on:
21-Feb-2007 10:52:59
Posted:
2638 posts
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Phill_d
User
Location:
Leeds
Joined on:
21-Feb-2007 10:52:59
Posted:
2638 posts
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Phill_d
User
Location:
Leeds
Joined on:
21-Feb-2007 10:52:59
Posted:
2638 posts
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Phill_d
User
Location:
Leeds
Joined on:
21-Feb-2007 10:52:59
Posted:
2638 posts
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Steve Jones
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Location:
Wakefield
Joined on:
18-Jan-2008 19:11:33
Posted:
651 posts
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just playing catch up on the additions to the thread. Excellent work again people!
i hope Alan the guy Brandy met and converted to the skulls last sunday outside The palace has manged to join.
He gave me his email address on a scrap of paper but I have been unable to trace it since.
That is why Alan I haven't contacted yourself since!
Incidentally the 1923 Leeds Directory is being given away free on CD- ROM with the present edition of Practical Family History Magazine for people wanting more sources for Leeds information in 20th century.
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Phill_d
User
Location:
Leeds
Joined on:
21-Feb-2007 10:52:59
Posted:
2638 posts
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Phill_d
User
Location:
Leeds
Joined on:
21-Feb-2007 10:52:59
Posted:
2638 posts
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andyross
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Location:
leeds
Joined on:
13-May-2008 21:14:54
Posted:
22 posts
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| Brandy wrote: |
| excellent find tasa,some of them are bloooody expensive as well there's one starting at£2000 i think someone needs to be made aware of this before it walks. |
am pretty worried about this disc now,
having read this comment and have seen a few people recently taking pics of it,
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