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Phill_d
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chameleon
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| Phill_d wrote: |
| One interesting feature was this bricked up arch in what looked like the chimney stack above. This part of the cellar is next to the Scotsman pub, This wall is half way under Hills furniture shop. The arch is leading in the direction of the skull building and pub. Hills shop extends further past this wall upstairs but there is no physical way to get past this wall and see what's behind the arch from either Hills or the yard. I've noticed on Lee's map the area behind this wall is marked as either a yard or area with a skylight in the roof. It does make me wonder were this arch used to lead to |
Well I'm really surprised phill - not even a lump hammer in the camera bag
The brickwork down there really does exemplify the extent of work that seems to have been carried out all around there, little wonder it's difficult to pin it all down, there's at least three 'generations' of different bricks in those shots. Wonder if there are cellars under the skull building? is the street level the same as it was then - certainly a little further up town, it's risen a whole storey as we saw in other threads.
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Phill_d
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Well this is the thing Chameleon. What's behind the arch? There is no physical way from Hills shop that stands above it. Hills has expanded further in to the building behind that extends to the skull building. But there is no way past this arch? It must go some where.
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chameleon
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| Phill_d wrote: |
| Well this is the thing Chameleon. What's behind the arch? There is no physical way from Hills shop that stands above it. Hills has expanded further in to the building behind that extends to the skull building. But there is no way past this arch? It must go some where. |
I'm thinking...those bricks need to come down
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Phill_d
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There's a bit of a crack in the brickwork, If you shine the torch in it appears to be bricked up behind with several courses. there isn't any great depth to what you can see. There seems 3 or 4 course of brick??
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LS1
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| cnosni wrote: |
| LS1 wrote: |
Apparently Frank Shires was born in 1903, so would be 105 now if he was still about!!
He was the person that wrote all the features about churches, civic life etc, but appears never to have been the editor there. |
Well Barbara Taylor Bradford cited Frank Shires as being the news editor of the YEP:-
"What good advice was given to you when you were starting out?
My news editor, Frank Shires, on the Yorkshire Evening Post said always remember Who, When, What, Where, How and Why. And in my writing I always create a character first; the "
so perhaps not the overall editor then,we missed the news bit Lee.
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Strange. Still, a shame he can't tell us his story about where he heard the skull tale from! Damn!!!
Phill great pics. These look just like the cellars of the Cloth Hall.
Interesting bit of stonework there blocking something up - just like the same stuff our skulls are made of ;-)
Reminds me of some cellar dwelling pics I've seen of the old slums of Leeds in the area. they are pretty dire and didn't look much different to your pics when people were living in them!
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drapesy
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Nice work Phill - these old buildings are fascinating.
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Phill_d
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Thanks fella's. It's got me thinking that we should really try put a date to things, i.e when was the Crown Inn built, when was it extended and turned into a pub. I think if we can narrow the date of the hayloft down by using available maps we can count likely sources of were the skulls could have come from. It's all laborious and were going around in circles but it's got to give up the answer at some point.
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andyross
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well Phill after nearly 11years of wondering whats behind those boarded panels in the back yard of shop i spoke to boss n he said its ok if i remove panels for a look ONLY!!! haha, also im going to get intouch with maintanence guy this week to borrow his ladder to cut some of the weeds growing out of the wall on 'Skulls head building' so at the same time i would prob have a great view of the roof while cutting the weeds down, glad the pics of the cellar ok, keep up the good work
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Phill_d
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| andyross wrote: |
| well Phill after nearly 11years of wondering whats behind those boarded panels in the back yard of shop i spoke to boss n he said its ok if i remove panels for a look ONLY!!! haha, also im going to get intouch with maintanence guy this week to borrow his ladder to cut some of the weeds growing out of the wall on 'Skulls head building' so at the same time i would prob have a great view of the roof while cutting the weeds down, glad the pics of the cellar ok, keep up the good work |
Hi Andy.. Welcome aboard mate. Thanks for the tour today, It's good to get a man on the inside and your boss is a real star. Lets hope we can move forward a bit and I think a few more Shandy's down the Palace will be called for to plan further stratergy. It will be good to see what's behind that boarding mate. Lets hope there's some great clue in there.
Cheers!
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andyross
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im totaly hooked on all this, its amazing finding out all this info about kirkgate and surounding areas, our lass is chewing my ear off though for sat here reading through all this, she from 'St Helens' Poor lass (not her fault) haha!! still there is a lot more to learn from these buildings and i hope i can help with finding more out
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Si
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Otley
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Welcome Andy. Thanks for your help. It's much appreciated.
Phill - I'm wondering if the bricked-up arch in the chimney-breast was originally the position of a cooking range? We know the cellar was living space because of the fire-place (which is also bricked-up) so maybe this was the kitchen area? Some of the beams in your shots show slots in their underside suggesting wooden partition walls. However, these old beams are often re-used from older buildings (or even ships.) Do you think the stone-flagged floor is original? Did the owner of Hill's say the building was c1750?
Obviously, I would prefer the arch to be a tunnel to the Crown and Fleece, but that's wishful thinking! ;-)
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Si
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| drapesy wrote: |
| Nice work Phill - these old buildings are fascinating. |
Aren't they just! I love all this stuff!
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Tasa
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Tasa
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Tasa
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Tasa
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Phill_d
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| Si wrote: |
| drapesy wrote: |
| Nice work Phill - these old buildings are fascinating. |
Aren't they just! I love all this stuff!
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It's hard to say about the arch Si. As you say it is built in the fireplace and it isn't full height, you do need to duck a little, but they didn't bother about that in those days. You got given what you got and were grateful for it, Cellars were always low headroom. The owner of Hills said it was circa 1775, This is the date quite a few of us think the Crown Inn was built as well. We think it was in a general development of that area at that time.
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Phill_d
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LS1
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It's not just a recess is it that arch thats been bricked up? I know it sounds daft but on the right hand side of it there is another recess that is about three/4 courses thick.
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Phill_d
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| LS1 wrote: |
It's not just a recess is it that arch thats been bricked up? I know it sounds daft but on the right hand side of it there is another recess that is about three/4 courses thick.
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Well that wall Lee is behind that 'suspect' area. It appears as either a court yard or as the key to the map shows it has roof lights. It's a strange thing we can't account for. That area is in the showroom of Hills shop now.
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Phill_d
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Phill_d
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Phill_d
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Phill_d
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Any thoughts we can narrow the skull building been constructed down to the years 1831-1836 with the evidence we have? I also will stick my neck out and say the Crown Inn was built in 1775 as a Merchants house connected with a general improvement of that area in 1775 when the Assembly rooms and Assembly court was created. It didn't exist in 1771. I think it was a private dwelling that turned into a small pub the Crown Inn and then extended and became the Crown & fleece sometime in the years 1775-1836.
A nice little connection is by the year 1837 the old St Peters parish church was fully demolished and construction of the new one was 1837-1841.
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