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Tasa
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Location:
Headingley, Leeds
Joined on:
08-Oct-2007 15:41:52
Posted:
328 posts
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I also found this yesterday in the Central Library - I'm including it here for general interest, but it doesn't add anything to the existing story. The author seems to be confusing the Crown and Fleece with the Old Crown, further down Kirkgate, and I suspect he has embellished the story for journalistic effect!
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Geordie-exile
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Location:
Tyneside
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06-Feb-2008 22:39:43
Posted:
541 posts
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Woah! Tasa comes up trumps again!
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chameleon
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Location:
Leeds
Joined on:
29-Mar-2007 22:46:49
Posted:
3609 posts
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| Tasa wrote: |
I also found this yesterday in the Central Library - I'm including it here for general interest, but it doesn't add anything to the existing story. The author seems to be confusing the Crown and Fleece with the Old Crown, further down Kirkgate, and I suspect he has embellished the story for journalistic effect!
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I know it's been said that it might all be a red herring, but for the same basic tangeable story to come up time after time, you have to think there must be more than a grain of truth in it. Such a shame it always stops at the same brick wall with nothing further following to substantiate it. Somewhere there has to be more lurking in a forgotten book.
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cnosni
User
Location:
Leeds
Joined on:
28-Mar-2007 21:17:06
Posted:
2685 posts
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| chameleon wrote: |
| Tasa wrote: |
I also found this yesterday in the Central Library - I'm including it here for general interest, but it doesn't add anything to the existing story. The author seems to be confusing the Crown and Fleece with the Old Crown, further down Kirkgate, and I suspect he has embellished the story for journalistic effect!
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I know it's been said that it might all be a red herring, but for the same basic tangeable story to come up time after time, you have to think there must be more than a grain of truth in it. Such a shame it always stops at the same brick wall with nothing further following to substantiate it. Somewhere there has to be more lurking in a forgotten book. |
Tasa,dont you dare make ANY other plans for next sunday.
If anyone is going to find a clue its you!!!!
That picture of Crown Court looks as if its looking down from the crown fisheries towards the back of the pub.
The back of the pub being the tallest building on the right of the picture,the gable end being the one with the Dysons advert on it.
What do you lot think
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cnosni
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Location:
Leeds
Joined on:
28-Mar-2007 21:17:06
Posted:
2685 posts
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cnosni
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Location:
Leeds
Joined on:
28-Mar-2007 21:17:06
Posted:
2685 posts
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LS1
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Location:
Leeds
Joined on:
23-Jul-2007 13:00:30
Posted:
1307 posts
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| cnosni wrote: |
| Phill_d wrote: |
Well I seriously don't think we get anyone to move these skulls except credible experts at this sort of thing. I doubt anyone will allow them to be moved like that, least of all Dysons. It would be alright if these things are 4-500years old and we get Bodgit & Scarper builders Ltd from the yellow pages who promptly smashes them into a hundred pieces. I think Lee is going along the right lines with this one  |
Well this is why i was trying to get the YAS on side to look at them,to see if they are deemed to be of some particular quality If they are then we may need someone along the lines of the people who do restoration work at York Minster to remove them.
To get these sort of people you need the right organisations with the necessary resources to arrange it.
We will have to do this by the book.
Theres no need at the moment to hurry,lets take our time and do it right.
Lee do you know if is there any department on the council that is responsible for such things as this,or do they leave it all to the YAS?
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Not sure, but I'll check it out with them. Not sure if they would do it though even if they could with it being in private ownership
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chameleon
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Location:
Leeds
Joined on:
29-Mar-2007 22:46:49
Posted:
3609 posts
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| LS1 wrote: |
| cnosni wrote: |
| Phill_d wrote: |
| Well I seriously don't think we get anyone to move these skulls except credible experts at this sort of thing. I doubt anyone will allow them to be moved like that, least of all Dysons. It would be alright if these things are 4-500years old and we get Bodgit & Scarper builders Ltd from the yellow pages who promptly smashes them into a hundred pieces. I think Lee is going along the right lines with this one |
Well this is why i was trying to get the YAS on side to look at them,to see if they are deemed to be of some particular quality If they are then we may need someone along the lines of the people who do restoration work at York Minster to remove them.
To get these sort of people you need the right organisations with the necessary resources to arrange it.
We will have to do this by the book.
Theres no need at the moment to hurry,lets take our time and do it right.
Lee do you know if is there any department on the council that is responsible for such things as this,or do they leave it all to the YAS?
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Not sure, but I'll check it out with them. Not sure if they would do it though even if they could with it being in private ownership |
This may be a posible place to start - though the title of ustainable Development seems a little modernistic for Heritage matters.
http://www.leeds.gov.uk/Leisure_and_culture/Conservation.aspx
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chameleon
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Location:
Leeds
Joined on:
29-Mar-2007 22:46:49
Posted:
3609 posts
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cnosni - I've seen no mention of Sheepscar West Yorkshire Archives, I'm not sure of their relevence here, do you think it might be somewhere else to search?
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slw
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Location:
Leeds
Joined on:
13-Jun-2007 22:25:05
Posted:
199 posts
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I've been looking on the 1901 census and it shows The Crown & Fleece Hotel (7 Crown Street). Info listed is as follows
Ecclesiastical Parish - St Peter.
Parliamentary Borough or Division - central Division.
Ward of Municipal Borough or Urban District - Central Ward.
People listed at the address -
George Whitaker - Aged 66 - Licensed (pub) Victualler
Clara Whitaker - Aged 46 (Wife)
Joseph Whitaker - Aged 18 (Son) - Assistant to parent
Violet Whitaker - Aged 15 (Daughter)
Annie Cornell - Aged 25 - General Servant Domestic
It then goes on to list properties on Assembly St. & Cloth Hall St.
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Steve Jones
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Location:
Wakefield
Joined on:
18-Jan-2008 19:11:33
Posted:
651 posts
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Mary Batemans skeleton is in the Thackray medical museum by the way.
i should point out as a modern day pagan that she wasn't a witch ,just a con artist and murderer.
I used to have a cassette of a play based on her story.I don't know where i put it though. I know I haven't thrown it away.
Must have a look , I think it is in a garden shed hereabouts.
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Steve Jones
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Location:
Wakefield
Joined on:
18-Jan-2008 19:11:33
Posted:
651 posts
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This link goes to the relevant extract from "The Newgate calendar" referring to mary bateman.
No mention in it of Assembly St . It does refer to other places in Kirkgate.
i don't think there is any link personally.
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Brandy
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Location:
Joined on:
21-Feb-2007 12:33:58
Posted:
1469 posts
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| Steve Jones wrote: |
This link goes to the relevant extract from "The Newgate calendar" referring to mary bateman.
No mention in it of Assembly St . It does refer to other places in Kirkgate.
i don't think there is any link personally. |
which link steve?
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cnosni
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Location:
Leeds
Joined on:
28-Mar-2007 21:17:06
Posted:
2685 posts
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| chameleon wrote: |
| cnosni - I've seen no mention of Sheepscar West Yorkshire Archives, I'm not sure of their relevence here, do you think it might be somewhere else to search? |
yes,but their collection is indexed on a site called A2A,it is an online national resource for archives up and down the country,listing their individual holdings.
I did a quick search the other day and didnt come up with much.
Perhaps if others want to try and see what comes up,after all look what happened when everyone was checking the online newspaper catalogue.
Just put in A2A into your search engine and it will bring up the homepage.
You can then search nationally for a particular reference or on each archives individual database.
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cnosni
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Location:
Leeds
Joined on:
28-Mar-2007 21:17:06
Posted:
2685 posts
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| slw wrote: |
I've been looking on the 1901 census and it shows The Crown & Fleece Hotel (7 Crown Street). Info listed is as follows
Ecclesiastical Parish - St Peter.
Parliamentary Borough or Division - central Division.
Ward of Municipal Borough or Urban District - Central Ward.
People listed at the address -
George Whitaker - Aged 66 - Licensed (pub) Victualler
Clara Whitaker - Aged 46 (Wife)
Joseph Whitaker - Aged 18 (Son) - Assistant to parent
Violet Whitaker - Aged 15 (Daughter)
Annie Cornell - Aged 25 - General Servant Domestic
It then goes on to list properties on Assembly St. & Cloth Hall St. |
So the Molyneuxs moved in 1901-1905 then.
I did a check in the 1901 census for Molyneux (and variants)in Leeds for 1901,no results in Leeds.
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Steve Jones
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Location:
Wakefield
Joined on:
18-Jan-2008 19:11:33
Posted:
651 posts
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Sorry i didn't realise I missed out the link:
http://www.exclassics.com/newgate/ng500.htm
Also watching the news today,the police have cordoned off a large area around The Calls ,Crown Street area ,after a major diturbance in the early hours of today resulted in 5 people being stabbed.
The police haven't released all the details yet and are still making arrests, but it started in Crown Street!
I hope the discussions on the skulls haven't turned ugly<LOL>!
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slw
User
Location:
Leeds
Joined on:
13-Jun-2007 22:25:05
Posted:
199 posts
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| Steve Jones wrote: |
Sorry i didn't realise I missed out the link:
http://www.exclassics.com/newgate/ng500.htm
Also watching the news today,the police have cordoned off a large area around The Calls ,Crown Street area ,after a major diturbance in the early hours of today resulted in 5 people being stabbed.
The police haven't released all the details yet and are still making arrests, but it started in Crown Street!
I hope the discussions on the skulls haven't turned ugly<LOL>! |
Thats two incidents this week in the same area !! On Thursday morning it was cordoned off due to an accident.
Curse of the skulls !!?!! 
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Steve Jones
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Location:
Wakefield
Joined on:
18-Jan-2008 19:11:33
Posted:
651 posts
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I used the historical directories site at:
http://www.historicaldirectories.org/hd/index.asp
to search the 1894 Whites Dirctory of Leeds and found a couple of interesting things.
Mrs Ann Molineux is the proprietor of the Bay Horse Hotel & restaurant at 97 Briggate whilst Mrs Anna Moleyneux is the proprietor of a lodging house at 69 Call Lane.
Either could qualify as the person who moved into the Crown & Fleece although Ann seems the most likely.
Incidentally considering where the skulls have ended up a certain Mrs J Moleyneux resided at 47 Buslingthorpe Lane!
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Steve Jones
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Location:
Wakefield
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18-Jan-2008 19:11:33
Posted:
651 posts
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Incidentally you can download pdf copies of early Baines Directories such as 1822.1823,1837 for Yorkshire from Google books which saves having to go to the library to find them.
Looking on Google Books using Leeds as keyword produces some interesting stuff too!
I borrowed a broadband connection yesterday to get some good stuff to transfer to my own computer as i am still on dial-up.
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Geordie-exile
User
Location:
Tyneside
Joined on:
06-Feb-2008 22:39:43
Posted:
541 posts
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| Steve Jones wrote: |
I used the historical directories site at:
http://www.historicaldirectories.org/hd/index.asp
to search the 1894 Whites Dirctory of Leeds and found a couple of interesting things.
Mrs Ann Molineux is the proprietor of the Bay Horse Hotel & restaurant at 97 Briggate whilst Mrs Anna Moleyneux is the proprietor of a lodging house at 69 Call Lane.
Either could qualify as the person who moved into the Crown & Fleece although Ann seems the most likely.
Incidentally considering where the skulls have ended up a certain Mrs J Moleyneux resided at 47 Buslingthorpe Lane! |
That's interesting about the Bay Horse. But earlier in the thread I posted that a David T Molineaux was listed at the Crown and Fleece in 1905. Perhaps they were related? I can't find him listed anywhere else. An Ann Molineaux, aged 65 and born in Gomersal is listed as living at Grove House, Shadwell in the 1901 census. Others at the dwelling are two domestic servants and a 29 year old barman. Ooerr missus!
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Geordie-exile
User
Location:
Tyneside
Joined on:
06-Feb-2008 22:39:43
Posted:
541 posts
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From the 1881 census:
YOUR SEARCH RESULTS (6 RECORDS)
Pub Town Surname Forenames Occupation Show
Crown & Fleece Inn
Leeds
BEANLAND
Elizabeth
Bar Maid (Inn)
Crown & Fleece Inn
Leeds
LUCOCK
Elizabeth Ann
Milliner
Crown & Fleece Inn
Leeds
MORTON
Mary Louisa
Crown & Fleece Inn
Leeds
MORTON
Margaret
Crown & Fleece Inn
Leeds
MORTON
Henry
Licensed Victualler
Crown & Fleece Inn
Leeds
STEAD
Florence Carr
http://www.1881pubs.com/show.asp?PubID=105613
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drapesy
User
Location:
Burley, Leeds
Joined on:
24-Feb-2007 21:20:32
Posted:
2145 posts
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| Steve Jones wrote: |
I used the historical directories site at:
http://www.historicaldirectories.org/hd/index.asp
to search the 1894 Whites Dirctory of Leeds and found a couple of interesting things.
Mrs Ann Molineux is the proprietor of the Bay Horse Hotel & restaurant at 97 Briggate whilst Mrs Anna Moleyneux is the proprietor of a lodging house at 69 Call Lane.
Either could qualify as the person who moved into the Crown & Fleece although Ann seems the most likely.
Incidentally considering where the skulls have ended up a certain Mrs J Moleyneux resided at 47 Buslingthorpe Lane! |
I'm not being picky Steve - but can you verify the name spelling -
The sign outside the Bay Horse, which still exists, and the sign on the Crown and Fleece photo bothe spell the name ' Molineaux' - i.e. with an 'a' - is that the spelling you found?
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drapesy
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Location:
Burley, Leeds
Joined on:
24-Feb-2007 21:20:32
Posted:
2145 posts
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drapesy
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Location:
Burley, Leeds
Joined on:
24-Feb-2007 21:20:32
Posted:
2145 posts
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drapesy
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Location:
Burley, Leeds
Joined on:
24-Feb-2007 21:20:32
Posted:
2145 posts
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| Brandy wrote: |
on closer inspection i think that this picture is eariler than the first one,it looks like this was the pub when it was just the crown.
if you look the sign is missing? |
You may be right that the picture is earlier - but I cant agree that it was when the pub was called just 'the Crown' - that name change took place too long ago (1834 at the latest) for there to be a photo.
If you look at the details in the 2 photos so much is identical(signs, lamps, etc- even the sign advertising the availability of a phone!) I suspect they are of a very similar date to one another. I would even believe that they were taken by the same photographer within minutes of each other.
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